[Legion] How spell development works

[Zhalfyr]

Hi everyone,

I've seen that someone of you regret that the fixes applied to different classes seem unbalanced, so here is a little explanation of how the class development works and why it can give the impression of unfairness.

First, in order to ensure that all classes get the same amount of fixes, we're working on cycles of 10 spells/classes. The bugs that we correct are chosen by the classes' Class Master, and they're also asked to evenly share them between all specializations.

Since a week and a half now, we decided that one of us should focus on Honor Talents, so we'll be able to start the PvP Season which you're all waiting for.

For the ones who may feel neglected (shadow priest to mention one). During the last cycle, I've started to work on this class and corrections I made have been applied at the end of November or beginning of December. The cycle finished at the end of December, so it's only fair that there has not been any fix before January. The current cycle isn't finished yet, the 10 fixes I will apply on priest aren't decided since the Priest Class Master couldn't be around a lot. But no worries, they will be fixed very soon.

We also decided to reinforce the Class Master team, by having one class master per specialization which is already true for some classes. This will also prevent that if one of them go on an extended absence, it won't lead the players to think that their class if neglected. Don't hesitate to apply to the Quality Assurance/Class Master team if you can do it!

Moving forward, we're going to make sure that bug-tracker stays up to date with the latest applied fixes, so it will be reliable for everyone. Finally, the last good news, we have three new developers that will join us during March and will be part of the team which will work on spells and classes. 

[TheRealMasu]

I applied.

Waiting for my reply for a week.

But I think, deep down, everyone knows how hard it is. they just like being big babies and cry about their class ^^

[Törpögies]

Problem is classes are not bugged the same . for instance  10spells fix cycle may be sufficient for monks, but not for priests.(this is just a random example).  Some classes have major bugs while others have minor. You should revise your method. This is just a suggestion, keep up the work. 

[forestbansh]

still waiting for priest spell levitate. must not be any class master since they pick 10 spells and priest hasnt had this spell since beginning 

[Innovation]

Hopefully all is well, 

Thank you so much for you're dedication, 

 

And hopefully I will join the (I applied for CM/QA)

 

[A 5 Year Old]

The legend has spoken, 

The fact that Firestorm is paying developers, and specified CMs per role is astonishing 

Keep up the good work

Edited January 24, 2017 by A 5 Year Old

[Processor]

Well i would really like to apply for CM/QA because i have a very good knowledge about some classes ( specialy DKs ) and i believe that i can help since i have developing background but the fact that i don't have Retail sub is bothering me :3

[DrSandwich]

1 hour ago, abbest said:

Well i would really like to apply for CM/QA because i have a very good knowledge about some classes ( specialy DKs ) and i believe that i can help since i have developing background but the fact that i don't have Retail sub is bothering me :3

I doubt someone would buy a retail sub just to be a QA here, lol. Obviously they'd prefer to play retail.

[Zhalfyr]

On 24/01/2017 at 8:47 PM, Törpögies said:

Problem is classes are not bugged the same . for instance  10spells fix cycle may be sufficient for monks, but not for priests.(this is just a random example).  Some classes have major bugs while others have minor. You should revise your method. This is just a suggestion, keep up the work. 

Your idea is quite interesting, I'm gonna think about it and try to find a way to set this up with the classes getting less fixes being okay with it.

On 24/01/2017 at 9:30 PM, forestbansh said:

still waiting for priest spell levitate. must not be any class master since they pick 10 spells and priest hasnt had this spell since beginning 

Actually that's in this cycle now. But I must consider the time that I'll have to spend to correct a bug. I'm taking this exemple since you mention it, at the moment, the spell is mostly working on the test realm, except sometimes the player goes under map. I estimate that it'll take quite a long time, and therefore I think I should fix 3-4 other spells instead if that takes me the same time. That's also why we don't start a cycle before ending the current one, to avoid those "complicated" bugs to be ignored.

[Sbrillocoso]

On 1/24/2017 at 9:30 PM, forestbansh said:

still waiting for priest spell levitate. must not be any class master since they pick 10 spells and priest hasnt had this spell since beginning 

Get outta here dude. It's the fault of people like you that devs are fixing the wrong spells instead of fixing the high priority ones. Who the fk cares about Levitate when you have mana regen bugged (Shadow), an entire raw of talent bugged (Holy) or Halo for Disciple (best healing talent for the lvl 90 raw) are bugged. Would please explain this to me? You're are losing all your mana in a fear, or not healing enough, but ehi! the spell to fall safely from Lumber Mill in Arathi Basin is bugged! Guess we will absolutely fix it first then!!! -  .  -

Seriously devs don't listen to these people.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sbrillocoso

[Sbrillocoso]

6 hours ago, Zhalfyr said:

Your idea is quite interesting, I'm gonna think about it and try to find a way to set this up with the classes getting less fixes being okay with it.

Actually that's in this cycle now. But I must consider the time that I'll have to spend to correct a bug. I'm taking this exemple since you mention it, at the moment, the spell is mostly working on the test realm, except sometimes the player goes under map. I estimate that it'll take quite a long time, and therefore I think I should fix 3-4 other spells instead if that takes me the same time. That's also why we don't start a cycle before ending the current one, to avoid those "complicated" bugs to be ignored.

Don't listen to him, there are like 10000 more important spells to fix for priest than Levitate, MANA REGEN for shadow priest is a clear example, the list goes on with Power of the Naaru for Holy or Halo for Discipline. Nobody cares about a cosmetic spell (Levitate) when you're out of mana casting 1 spell or not healing enough. C'mon you devs are playing the game too, a bit of priority should be known.

Hell Levitate should be the last spell to fix, even artifact traits are 1000% more important.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sbrillocoso

[Sbrillocoso]

Btw my suggestion is to hire better CMs, as the priority in fixes is way off. For example last week you fixed 2 pvp talents for rogue when rogues have 1 spec playable so far, because Assassination and Subtlety energy regeneration passive abilties are both bugged since beta!!! As well finishing moves are dealing damage as if they were done with -1 combo points, so we are doing not damage and energy starving, but ehi we have got 2 pvp talents! (in plus they are like the worst pvp talent of the raw).

What I'm trying to say is that those 2 PvP talents shouldn't of been even on your 10 cycle spell to fix when those bugs above are existing!!!

This is unacceptable for a server as known and big as Firestom. A sane priority in fixes is the most important thing if you're proposing a new expansion content, aka Legion. Much more important if the devs are few and you can fix only a small number of spell per week.

More dedicated and better class mechanic priority knowledge CMs is what Firestorm need, people like Sketter for example.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sbrillocoso

[Sbrillocoso]

Excuse me Zalfyr if I seem on rage mode, but those changelogs make my hair stand most of the times.

It's like CMs our you devs are playing on a different server with different bugs, hence the absurd priority.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sbrillocoso

[Sketter]

1 hour ago, Sbrillocoso said:

Btw my suggestion is to hire better CMs, as the priority in fixes is way off. For example last week you fixed 2 pvp talents for rogue when rogues have 1 spec playable so far, because Assassination and Subtlety energy regeneration passive abilties are both bugged since beta!!! As well finishing moves are dealing damage as if they were done with -1 combo points, so we are doing not damage and energy starving, but ehi we have got 2 pvp talents! (in plus they are like the worst pvp talent of the raw).

What I'm trying to say is that those 2 PvP talents shouldn't of been even on your 10 cycle spell to fix when those bugs above are existing!!!

This is unacceptable for a server as known and big as Firestom. A sane priority in fixes is the most important thing if you're proposing a new expansion content, aka Legion. Much more important if the devs are few and you can fix only a small number of spell per week.

More dedicated and better class mechanic priority knowledge CMs is what Firestorm need, people like Sketter for example.

As said from the start of the Topic, Developers are focusing on Honor Talents mainly now, That does not mean, that the Usual cycle of 10 Non-Honor Talent is broken, Just a different Dev works on them. However, it takes longer than Fixing Honor talents, Since majority of the PvP talents are just proc bonus buff, that are easily fixable.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sketter

[forestbansh]

2 hours ago, Sbrillocoso said:

Get outta here dude. It's the fault of people like you that devs are fixing the wrong spells instead of fixing the high priority ones. Who the fk cares about Levitate when you have mana regen bugged (Shadow), an entire raw of talent bugged (Holy) or Halo for Disciple (best healing talent for the lvl 90 raw) are bugged. Would please explain this to me? You're are losing all your mana in a fear, or not healing enough, but ehi! the spell to fall safely from Lumber Mill in Arathi Basin is bugged! Guess we will absolutely fix it first then!!! -  .  -

Seriously devs don't listen to these people.

shadow priest doesn't even use mana anymore i main as shadow and i never have any problem with that

[Sbrillocoso]

1 hour ago, forestbansh said:

shadow priest doesn't even use mana anymore i main as shadow and i never have any problem with that

Are you telling me you never did PvP as shadow? You cast 2 shields or two fears and you're out of mana. You can't do anything unless you drink between single fights, shadow priest is the only dps caster that have to do so currently. If you have 2 pvp encounters in bg in a row you're basically screwed, you can't fear, you can't shield and heal yourself. Not to talk about arenas, even worse.

Just get Levitate out of your mind, there are tons of more important things to fix first. For now ask for a mage to put Slow fall on you and gg. Or buy Noggenfogger elixir and there is no problem literally.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sbrillocoso

[Sbrillocoso]

1 hour ago, Sketter said:

As said from the start of the Topic, Developers are focusing on Honor Talents mainly now, That does not mean, that the Usual cycle of 10 Non-Honor Talent is broken, Just a different Dev works on them. However, it takes longer than Fixing Honor talents, Since majority of the PvP talents are just proc bonus buff, that are easily fixable.

Ya sketter I know but the problem isn't the single last changelog about PvP talents, the problems is having such huge specbreaking bugs after 3 months of an expansion in. Those 3 bugs alone if fixed would add 2 more playable spec on the rogue class, but rogue CM is sleeping big and secondary things are fixed first. 

The result? After 3 months 1 rogue spec playable.

Those bugs are so huge they would of have been put on the very first spell fix cycle for rogue if certain CMs would actually know what they are doing. I think you inderstand very well the point I'm trying to make.

I think the whole community would be happier to have more spec to pick up to play instead of a few PvP talents working. And you know I'm right, wouldn't you prefer being able to pick for PvP and PvE all 3 dk specs instead being able only to play Frost but with a few PvP talents working?

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sbrillocoso

[Sketter]

2 hours ago, Sbrillocoso said:

Ya sketter I know but the problem isn't the single last changelog about PvP talents, the problems is having such huge specbreaking bugs after 3 months of an expansion in. Those 3 bugs alone if fixed would add 2 more playable spec on the rogue class, but rogue CM is sleeping big and secondary things are fixed first. 

The result? After 3 months 1 rogue spec playable.

Those bugs are so huge they would of have been put on the very first spell fix cycle for rogue if certain CMs would actually know what they are doing. I think you inderstand very well the point I'm trying to make.

I think the whole community would be happier to have more spec to pick up to play instead of a few PvP talents working. And you know I'm right, wouldn't you prefer being able to pick for PvP and PvE all 3 dk specs instead being able only to play Frost but with a few PvP talents working?

I fully understand that, but i also fully understand that i cannot choose a Warr spec anytime i want in Raids/Dungeons, Since i mainly focus on Arms, i am not going to be playing Fury right?Since it has almost no Traits unlocked. I think that pretty much counts for all classes.  About the rogue CM, yeah, he is a bit sleepy. Lel.

[TheRealMasu]

7 hours ago, Sbrillocoso said:

.And you know I'm right, wouldn't you prefer being able to pick for PvP and PvE all 3 dk specs instead being able only to play Frost but with a few PvP talents working?

I actually prefer playing UH more than Frost... and honestly, I do better in UH than in frost, be it PvP or PvE. I roll as UH and it works out pretty fine, since I normally get either 1st or 2nd in dps/damage charts, when in frost besides not being as fun to me, I don't pull as much as I do in UH..

[Sbrillocoso]

17 hours ago, Sketter said:

I fully understand that, but i also fully understand that i cannot choose a Warr spec anytime i want in Raids/Dungeons, Since i mainly focus on Arms, i am not going to be playing Fury right?Since it has almost no Traits unlocked. I think that pretty much counts for all classes.  About the rogue CM, yeah, he is a bit sleepy. Lel.

Yes Sketter  but the problem is, you had a CHOICE between Arms or Fury and you pick the spec you have the most fun playing with. Whereas Rogues, Warlocks, etc. here don't have a choice but to go with the same spec if they don't want to be kicked for not doing enough dps in PvE, or suck in PvP. 

That's the main difference.

[nightblitzz]

Is there any class master for rogues, literally i dont see any major spell fixes for rogue on Legion...

[Sacredheals]

So after applying to be a priest class master, i was told that they have enough people. (Priest CM is atm handling most of the workflow related to the class! I will keep this apply in mind if we need an extra hand!). And now i find out from a developer that priest class masters have been slacking or absent. I think its about time to start taking a look at at the applications that were sent to you firestorm.

[TheRealMasu]

Lucky you, you got a reply.

I've been waiting for my reply for more than 2 weeks now. They were quick in asking what class I wanted, but after I replied on the same day, I never got a reply back saying if I got in or not..

[Sacredheals]

3 hours ago, TheRealMasu said:

Lucky you, you got a reply.

I've been waiting for my reply for more than 2 weeks now. They were quick in asking what class I wanted, but after I replied on the same day, I never got a reply back saying if I got in or not..

Yea i got one within the next 3 days but the fact that they don't bother looking at old applications is troubling. Am i supposed to re-apply since the developer stated they need more people on deck?

[TheRealMasu]

Hopefully they are aware of what they're doing here... because people who do care about getting their class fixed and apply and, if accepted, focus on the most important issues on their class. instead they either decline, or the ones that are there aren't much aware of what's happening here... Fdk has had the same bug since the legion realm opened up, which makes it completly garbage to play against.. it's not very great to go 1v1 with a Fdk and he just uses 2-4 skills and you just die...